Back in March, I spoke with the lovely Shannon Wooten and Olivia Seline for the Soul in the Raw podcast. We delved into intuitive decision-making, overcoming “should” to define your wants and needs, and creating work and a life that reflects the essence of who you are.

Feel free to scroll through the transcript below or dive straight into the topic you’re most interested in:

(03:55) Background and 2018 review
(06:12) Comparison and asking the right questions
(09:35) Intuitive decision-making
(10:40) Prepare for your ideal next step
(15:13) Change begins in the body
(18:51) Overcoming “should”
(21:42) Need vs. want
(24:32) Practical mindfulness (+ book!)
(25:22) The need for mindfulness
(27:20) Redefining productivity
(32:27) “This should also serve me.”
(35:20) Find and share your gift
(37:18) 2019: The year of ease
(40:06) The confessional
(41:00) The “messy middle”

Our conversation covered a lot and evoked some powerful emotions/energy. Let me know what you think! Share your thoughts (and favourite podcasts!) in the comments.

Transcript

Shannon Wooten: So amazing conversation today about clarity, mindfulness and productivity. Hold onto your butts and prepare to be completely relaxed, like you’ve just been in a massage room where beautiful music is playing in the background. You can just feel that all of your senses are just being completely titillated on every level. Be prepared to explore the difference between want and need and deconstructing your “should”s. It was just like a warm hug.

Olivia Seline: I compared it to taking a shower in warm, golden light just hugging every ounce of your soul. We interviewed today and got to hang out with Melissa Steginus, who is a mindfulness teacher, a productivity coach, a yoga instructor. And you can feel it in every word, every breath, every moment. You just feel like Shannon said, it hits every sense and you are just like [sigh]. It’s like a safe, soft place to land. But also she’s a productivity coach; it’s like this very feminine way of being and the essence of slowing down and presence and awareness, but then she also talks about how that affects, in entrepreneurship, our productivity and our doing and our work and all the things we are outputting every day as well.

We talk a lot about:

•  The correlation between productivity and mindfulness
•  Overcoming the “should”
•  Art of stillness
•  Intuitive decisions

So many golden nuggets today!

Shannon: So good. Be prepared to explore your being, discover your essence, shift the questions that you ask yourself, and immerse yourself in a really zen conversation with so many golden nuggets.

(03:15)

Olivia: So Melissa, I have been wanting to talk with you for, I feel like it’s been like almost a year now. You were going to be on the podcast when it was me and Crystal, way back, it literally feels like lifetimes ago. You were going to be on the podcast, you had everything lined up, and then life took you in some different directions. So, I’m excited to talk to you about those, and now we’re so happy, with divine timing it’s always synchronicity, it’s exactly when your message is meant to come through so we’re so happy to have you here today.

So tell us what’s kind of been happening in this last year or so, what’s been transpiring behind the scenes that’s led you to being the mindfulness teacher and the productivity coach that you are now?

(03:55) background and 2018 review

Melissa Steginus: Thank you for finally having me here [laughter]. You know, life has been taking me all over all kinds of maps, as it tends to do. So, I’m so excited finally sit down and chat with both of you. 2018 and the last year have been totally wild in, I think, the best way. So what I’ve been doing is I actually took 6 months to just kind of be with myself through this last year. I’ve been, my background and my professional work prior to coaching was in doing pretty heavy stuff in counseling and in social work. And I’ve also done lots of, you know, I’ve worked as a business manager, I’ve worked as a yoga instructor, but primarily I was working as a counselor. So, for years and years I was just going, going, going, and being a little bit of everything.

And so come September of 2018, I moved out of the city, and I moved out kind of into the forest, and near the ocean on the west coast of BC in Canada where I am now. And have just been learning how to be with myself and learning how to reconnect with the work that I’m teaching and with just kind of being a person. Do you know what I mean? We so easily forget that and how to be that. And in doing that, I’ve shifted from realizing that I can give, give, give in this context as a professional, as a counselor, and I can still do that, but also I really just want to put into practice what I’m giving to other people. And for me a big piece of that is mindful living and intentional living. And so now that I’ve had those 6 months, and a long time prior to that, of building out what that looks like for me, and really being clear on how that’s benefited me, now it’s given me so much clarity as to how I can give that back to other people in a way that feels so true and so authentic. And, you know, that I’ve also tried and tested.

(06:12) Comparison and asking the right questions

Shannon: I feel like I’m ingesting what I feel like you’re implying, so please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s like we get so caught up in social media and there’s so much comparison readily available it’s like a comparison buffet. Like here I’ll take this from you, and I’ll take this from you, and we’ll just match ourselves up against it and decide where we’re at a deficit. And then we kind of just own that more than anything, right? We forget all of our natural, beautiful, organic ways of being. And ironically I just released a program today on this, so I’m just so excited to talk to you. We just forget, we forget who we are at our core, and we become hyper-focused on, you know, I call it the deficit column. Here’s all the things I don’t have, here are all the things I’m not. So, I’m curious to hear from you what does “being” mean?

Melissa: That is I think the key question. Speaking to what you’re saying, I heard a really amazing quote recently that was, “Comparison is the thief of joy.”

Shannon: Yes, Teddy Roosevelt.

Melissa: And in this digital age especially, like you say, that’s so prominent for all of us. We are really used to, myself included, previously, looking outwards for our answers—looking externally. I think a lot of times, too, it’s easier because that’s our default and because there is so much going on outside of ourselves.

We’re in this busy, hectic world with just constant information and movement. So for me what that [being] has looked like recently is three things: silence, stillness and solitude. And I realize that it looks so different for every person and that there’s not necessarily one, you know, universal one-size-fits-all answer, but I really do think, and have experienced for myself, that to learn how to be, you’ve really going to learn to be with yourself. To spend time with yourself, to nurture that relationship, just like you would when you make a new friend. What does that process look like? You’re asking them questions, you’re trying to get to know them, figure out what makes this person tick. And the same is true with your relationship with yourself.

And as a second point to that, one shift that has been absolutely massive for me is a change in the questions that I ask myself in terms of how I approach life. So, what I used to do a lot more, and I’m really trying to un-wire myself to live like this and to think like this is I would ask, “Okay, what do I do next?” and really I would define myself by what I was doing. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I do think that there needs to be a balance with, “What kind of person do I want to be?”

Shannon: Oh, I love that.

Melissa: Right? Like, how do I want to be? What kind of life do I want to live? And just taking more of the holistic approach to yourself in that sense. Rather than just defining yourself by your actions and what you give. But who am I at the core? What is my essence all about?

(09:35) Intuitive decision-making

Olivia: That’s huge. I mean we talk about it a lot here too on Soul in the Raw. One of our mentors, Melanie Ann Layer, she always says we attract who we are and not what we do, and the magic truly is in the being. Like you’ve said, it’s not more about what do I need to do, what decision do I need to make as far as what comes next and as far as do, do, do… but who am I being in all of it? Who am I being in the stillness?  Who am I being in the decisions? Who am I being in my business?

And I think it’s, I mean I just want to celebrate you for taking the steps back, because so often we’re just like, “Oh well, I’ll fake it until I make it,” or “I’ll force my way through,” or “I’ll control my way through,” but instead it was like what Shannon and I have both done a lot of in the last 6 months is like falling back and just really being and doing and asking ourselves those really difficult questions of who am I, and what is the essence of me, and who am I being in all of this? So I can imagine that this was a difficult decision you had to make as far as “Ok, I will take these 6 months, and I’m gonna fall back.” You talk a lot about intuitive decisions. Was that an intuitive decision for you or how did you know that that was the right thing for you in that time?

(10:40) Prepare for your ideal next step

Melissa: It was really uncomfortable. I will be totally honest with you, it was really unnatural for me to do that. As a helper and as a giver, and as someone who has defined myself for so long by what I’m doing, it felt super counter-intuitive. At the same time, at the beginning of 2018, I had another big shift, lifestyle change where I moved to a city. And I thought this is where the opportunities are, I’m gonna connect with these creative entrepreneurs and progressive startups. And when I got there, things, well, I guess didn’t really go according to plan. Life threw me a curveball, as it sometimes does, and that’s okay too. I learn how to roll with that. But there was this message that I got when I really, again, practiced that stillness with myself. And I’m big into yoga, big into meditation, and just sitting with myself or walking with myself. And something inside me said, “There is a big transformation that’s coming, and you need to prepare yourself.”

You know when you get something in your head and you’re not sure what it’s about, or if it’s you or if it’s right or if you just conjured it up? So I was like, “Okay, cool, whatever this is, I like what you’re saying, and I can behind this. Let’s roll with this.” And so I had this feeling, I don’t get to know what’s going to happen next, but I’m going to prepare myself. So if I were to prepare myself for this transformation, for my ideal next step, what would that look like? And that’s what I started doing. And, for me, I realized maybe this next step doesn’t necessarily have a specific action attached to it, maybe it’s just like, “Hey, you in there, we need to come back to what’s going on inside you. You need to heal your heart and be gentle with yourself so that you can really dive deep and figure out or nurture outside of you what that might look like. But it starts with you.” That was what I kept coming back to. It just starts with you.

Shannon: I’m like, [laughter] I just want to stop talking and be done now.

Olivia: We just want to be in the stillness. Let’s just be.

Shannon: Because, you said, you know, I don’t get to know what happens next. As Olivia pointed out, we’ve both been making a lot of shifts lately. And one of them included, for me, investing $30,000 in a coach where I just felt like every day I’m going to shit my pants of like how the hell am I going to do this, how the hell am I going to pay this, and I know Olivia, cause we are BFFs in real life, we’ll message each other every day and we’re just like “I don’t know how we’re going to do this, but we’re fucking doing it, hold onto your butts, like it’s happening.” So again, you know, as she mentioned Melanie Ann Layer who is our mentor, she is also my coach, I heard when you said that, so much beauty of “I don’t get to know what’s happening next, but I get to know who I’m going to choose to be about it.” And it comes from, as soon as you said, you know, being in this stillness with your decisions, it really does come from that. It really does come from being in support of yourself.

And I have to tell you, I’m just curious if you go through things like this, intuitively or physically, Melissa, but like I’ve received downloads like that too, or uploads however you want to look at it, where it’s like I don’t know why I’m being called to this decision, I don’t even know why I’m being called to this next piece or part, but I know it’s going to be big, and when I do, something physical happens too. Like sometimes I’ll get the shits where I’m just like shitting my pants, like purging, purging. And it’s so interesting too, because I think as people who are empathetic and intuitive, we expect it to all just be like this inner knowing, but also sometimes there is like physical attributes of it too. So, I know you talk a lot about clarity and mindfulness and productivity, but is any part of that also allowing yourself to feeling the physical?

(15:13) Change begins in the body

Melissa: I’m really glad that you’ve brought that up, Shannon, because that is a really interesting piece that I’ve been exploring so much lately. And the short answer and the complete answer is yes, absolutely, 100 percent. I recently went to this amazing workshop… so like I said before, I’m also a yoga instructor, and it’s a big part of my own personal growth is my practice and my teaching. And a big part of that workshop was the neuroscience behind the mind-body connection. And so what I learned that I hadn’t realized before was that 15 percent of information starts in your brain and goes into your body, so your mind telling your body what to do. But actually 85 percent of information that we carry, that we move through, starts in our bodies and moves up into our brain.

And I think for so many of us it’s a way to retrieve information, to get to know ourselves, whether it’s who we are or, like you say, what we should do next. It actually does, for the most part, begin in your body. The piece of yoga is so powerful for me and stillness and silence and just listening to your body, right? Because when you feel those shifts, it’s like when you work too hard and your body get sick, that’s because you’re not listening to your mind and your heart that are telling you you need to slow down so your body kicks in and says, “Okay, I’m gonna slow you down so that you listen,” and so that you actually take a moment, or take a week and kick your feet up. Right? We don’t need to wait until our bodies are telling us to get sick, but oftentimes when there are these big shifts, your body is, it’s not like your body is catching up, it’s that that was the starting point. You know, when you feel that intuitive need for a change, that’s why we call it, a “gut” feeling. Because you get cramps, you’re tight, you’re constricted, you’re uncomfortable, right? And that’s your body saying, “Yeah, because something needs to change here, and it’s going to change. So let’s do this.”

Olivia: 100 percent.

Shannon: I love that. I’d never even put two and two together, like that’s your gut instinct. Yeah, it can be instinct as well as a gut physical feeling telling you to move or to change or to shift or to grow or not.

(17:53)

Olivia: It’s like the uploading versus the downloading. You can download the information from all the external on the outside or you can upload it, and it starts at the base of you in your stomach, your gut, your womb area. It’s like okay, it’s all starting here, and then you literally, and especially with mindfulness and yoga and meditation and breathwork, you can bring that like sexual creative energy all the way from the base of you up and through, and then you’re uploading information versus downloading and you’re feeling into it.

I just want to hug yoga teachers, because of all your mindfulness and your slow and methodical way of thinking very intentionally before you speak. I’m just enamoured because I’m like [fast chirping] talking about all the things at one time. So I’m very in awe of that.

So, my question would be for you is then how do you, Melissa, how do we overcome then the should or “but I have to do this,” or “I need to do this,” or “I should do this?” How do you help your clients overcome that piece of it to go more into the being and the mindfulness and the stillness?

(18:51) Overcoming “should”

Melissa: This is such a big question for a lot of people. I call it the “disastrous should mentality,” because with what we were saying before about comparison with social media especially, it’s like it comes naturally for us to say, “I see your journey and I should be at this step.” And the first thing that I walk people through, walk clients through, is the difference between should from need and want. I do think that need is a personal thing, and want is a personal thing, whereas should is just completely external. It’s based on someone else and where they’re at at a certain time and only perhaps a small portion of their journey that you actually see.

With what I teach in mindfulness and intention, I love that you used that word because, again, that just goes hand-in-hand with mindfulness, is when you step out of should and you think “Okay, they’re doing that, and that’s wonderful,” and maybe you’ll get to a point down the road once you establish your needs and wants where you can be happy for other people where they’re at, and you build an understanding of your needs and your wants… that comes from a deep-rooted intention. That comes from your own self-awareness, your knowledge of yourself, and recognizing, as well, your self-worth. You are worth focusing on your journey and your person and your next steps.

(20:40)

Shannon: [Silence] I just wanna take a pause.

Olivia: I know, a moment of silence…

Melissa: We’re having kind of spiritual experience right now, this is so special.

Olivia: It is like an energetic thing.

Shannon: I’m like holding on to my yoni egg. I’m holding onto her, like do you feel the energy cause I sure do, haha. Wow, I’m so curious about distinguishing, you know, the difference of should from need and from want and how you, it sounds like you’re deconstructing should. And I’m super curious about, I know you said, like, align ourselves to be intentional with what it is what we want, and really truly tapping into ourselves and then I think it all goes back to what you’re talking back with the silence, and the stillness, and the solitude. So, when it comes to need and want then, how do you frame those, right? Because I know a lot of people don’t see those as being different.

(21:42) Need vs. want

Melissa: Interesting. Yeah. I think that, and maybe this is contrary to popular belief, but I think that they’re different in a sense of what you need, and this depends on circumstances, right, sometimes what you need just covers your basics. I need shelter, I need water, I need food. But then we also have things like my deepest dreams and my goals and my desires. And I think that those start as wants when they’re very far away. You know, when you’re sitting here and you think about next year or in 5 years, I want to shift from where I am now to building this business and having my entrepreneurial dream, this huge want, I want that as a full time gig, I want that to be everything so I can give all of myself in that way. And so when it’s far away, when you’re just kind of crafting it, then I think it starts as a very intentional want.

And then when the action starts taking place, and the ball starts rolling and you make strides, intentional strides toward that want, and you really start kind of getting a taste for it, and again, like you were really taking those practical steps, and you recognize your connection to that want, to that goal, that it’s actually a part of you, that’s when it shifts into a need. Because then you don’t just see it as something that you want to do; you see it as, “This is a part of who I am, and this is a way that I can manifest this piece of myself into the world.” And that is when it just becomes so much more powerful than, “Yeah I want that, that seems like a really cool life.” It’s like, “No, I need that, because that’s a mirror of me to the outside world.”

Olivia: It’s a piece of you, it’s like part of your identity.

Shannon: I want to cry, it’s so good. Everything. I’m like, “Yes! Yes! It is a need, it is a need.”

(24:12)

Olivia: It is, and I think it goes back to exactly what we’ve talked about. Shannon and I have both been in a very interesting last few months as well, like shifting everything in our lives. So hearing you talk about it and bring such powerful awareness and meaning to all of it through the mindfulness aspect is like, it’s like soothing to my soul. I feel like I’m taking a shower in warm, golden light right now. That’s how my soul feels.

(24:32) Practical mindfulness (+ book reference!)

Melissa: That’s amazing. I love hearing that. And I think for me, with mindfulness, it’s a really elusive term for a lot of people, which is way I pair it with productivity in a lot of senses and why I’ve really broken it down to be practical. And just last week, so this is amazing timing, divine timing, like you said earlier, just last week I finished writing and sent off a book to an editor, and she sent it back. I know, big moment, throwing the confetti, I can feel it. This book, the working title as of right now is 108 Days of Mindfulness: Practices for an Awakened, Empowered and Fulfilled Life.

Olivia: Wow. Oh, I have chills.

(25:22) The need for mindfulness

Melissa: Cool! [clap] That’s good. The opening quote of this book, which I think ties in really beautifully to what we’re talking about and all these different concepts, is by John Kabat-Zinn, and he is the founder of mindfulness-based stress reduction, and I encourage all your listeners to look into it, it’s fascinating, it’s really practical and useful. But this is the quote: “Mindfulness is about being fully awake in our lives. It is about the perceiving the exquisite vividness of each moment. We also gain immediate access to our own powerful inner resources for insight, transformation, and healing.”

And I just think, that, for me, that’s a need. And I think for a lot of people too, right? To be mindful. With that definition: to be fully awake, to recognize your worth, and you have the power to upload these resources that you hold. That’s in you, that’s part of you. That’s more than just a want.

Olivia: Well, and think back to the caveman days. Mindfulness was a thing. At our core, mindfulness is a need for all of us. Just like water, food and air is, but over time we’ve been conditioned and programmed to believe that is like the hustle and the busy, and the go-go-go, and the comparison in social media, and everything in society. All those beautiful things have almost taken that innate piece of us away, and you’re bringing it back and making it very practical and tangible for people, which I admire so much.

It’s very much the feminine energy of the mindfulness combined with the productivity of the masculine and bringing them both in. So, where does the correlation happen between mindfulness and productivity then?

(27:20) Redefining productivity

Melissa: That’s a question I get a lot, so I appreciate you asking that so I can shed some light on it and give some clarity. So, for me, the marriage, I suppose, of mindfulness and productivity came when I was sitting at home in my quiet (and I swear I don’t always just sit alone at home in silence but that’s when my best ideas happen!). And I realized, I’ve taught self care for a long time, and I’ve taught mindfulness in different capacities for a long time. And I’ve also worked as a productivity coach. So a big part of it for me was what excites me, what am I experienced in, and where is my expertise. And it was in those two facets. And I’ve seen so many pieces, so many articles and blog posts, that really differentiate the two, and put them on, you know, kind of two different mountains with a huge valley in between, and it’s like, no you can’t cross over. Whereas for me, I’m a very aware person, very intuitive and empathetic and fascinated by mindfulness. But I’m also extremely driven and ambitious, and when I’m doing my work, I’m realizing that it’s done with great intention, right? It’s not just pushing papers around the desk; it’s not just busy work. And I’m sure, I know the same it’s true for you two because you create such amazing communities and connections and products. And I think for entrepreneurs and a lot of people within the working sphere alike, productivity is, like you said, equated with hustle. The hustle and the grind.

And I wasn’t resonating with that and I was realizing there’s a gap in this for me because this just doesn’t speak to me. But yet a lot of the mindfulness in and of itself isn’t speaking to me because it doesn’t address my drive and my work. So, I recognized there is a space and there are people within that space. There’s a space for a combination of the two, where you’re doing work with mindfulness and you’re being productive because you’re doing the right things. You’re doing things that matter to you and are meaningful to you; you’re not just busy for the sake of doing and for the sake of being busy, because it makes you feel important, or whatever it gives you. But again, you’re doing something that serves; it serves you and it serves as a kind of reflection of you out into the world. And for me, that’s what productivity is. I teach tools, I teach techniques, absolutely let’s get down to the bare bones. But it’s also the big picture stuff. And I really don’t think that you can be productive if you’re not mindful.

(30:12)

Shannon: Every time I’m like, “We’re done!” That’s all. My brain just is like yes, yes, yes. Wow. I hope that you guys listening are allowing the calm and the intention and the heart of her words to really resonate with you. (And if not, I would invite you to kind of look into what’s up with that. Not from a space of being wrong, but just a space of, you know, what you’re allowing.)

But Olivia and I have been having this conversation lately too, going back to the comparison buffet, of seeing how other people operate in their business, right? And the way that we’re approaching things is really, I feel like, Olivia you can correct me if I’m wrong, in line with what Melissa is saying here. Because we do not believe that our masculine and feminine energies need to be mutually exclusive. We believe that they can have a beautiful harmony and marriage and allow us to create our businesses from a very solid platform. And that is more so our focus, right? It is allowing those two things to operate together for the greater good of yes, a 100 percent our clients and our audiences, but also for our health, and our well-being. And from a place that, at least for me, again, Liv, correct me if I’m wrong, but allows us to have a lasting result in our business, allows us to have sustainability and longevity.

So, I’m curious, from your perspective, Melissa, I love everything, everything that you’re saying, I’m like, mmm, this is delicious. It’s just hitting all the bells for me, my brain is just ringing of the hook right now. But what is the lasting result, or what do you think is sustainable about this way of coaching?

(32:27) “This should also serve me.”

Melissa: I love what you’re saying about balance between masculine and feminine energy. And for me, like I said, that looks like a balance between the mindfulness and productivity piece, a balance between tapping into myself but also creating work that’s meaningful. And I think that that balance is the key to longevity because not only does it serve the people that you’re working with, the clients that you’re coaching, not to mention everyone else that’s around you in your personal life and in your business, but it also reflects back to you and it actually comes back and serves you.

So, in my experience, especially through my 6 months where I did step back, I realized that when I came back into work that I wanted to make and create, that I had this mantra that “this should also serve me.” Right, because if it doesn’t, if it just takes and takes and drains and burns me out, ultimately, I am my business. And I have innate authentic gifts unique to me, just as everyone does, that I have a responsibility to share, right? That people deserve to experience and that I deserve to share. And so if what I’m doing isn’t nurturing me in the sense that I can continue to share those things, then I’m not doing anyone any good.

(34:05)

Olivia: 100 percent. And if the stress kills you, or if the people pleasing and the “should”s and the over-giving and over-extending kills you, or gives you disease, creating disease in the body, which is killing of us faster than we’re meant to, it’s aging us, then your body is going to give up before your soul does and therefore your purpose is not fulfilled on this planet, which is the whole reason you’re put here in the first place. So, it’s like the hustle can look sexy, and people that are doing all of the things all of the time, it’s cool, and they might be getting their workouts in and they’re eating well and that’s one side of it. But the whole other side that’s not talked about is the stress and the hormonal things happening and the energetic things happening.

And what you’re saying in mindfulness, the being, the stillness, the slowing down, the being present, the being in our bodies–we’re able to not only cure diseases within the body; we’re also able to prevent the disease in the body. Where, when I’m, you know, 20 years old starting a business, yeah, this hustle is sexy and I can out-work anybody, and, damn, I’ve got the all of the energy in the world. And then by the time I’m 40, I’m halfway dead, you know, all of the sudden I’m like,  “Oh my gosh, I don’t have the energy that I used to,” but it’s trusting our bodies to guide us. But you have to be mindful in order to do that and that’s where the longevity lies.

(35:20) Find and share your gift

Melissa: Absolutely, and I think that longevity within yourself is first and foremost. In your business, in your life, if you don’t have your health, there is not much more that you can give. It leads you to stepping into that, again, what I call “disastrous should mentality,” which leads to comparison. If you’re always watching everyone else because you’re not connected to yourself, you’re not being mindful with who you are and what you want to do, and what you want or need. Then you’re looking at everyone else, and you’re just kind of trying to mimic what they’re doing. And it really does you a disservice, and it prevents you from having a business of longevity because what makes your business successful in the long run is authenticity. It’s being vulnerable. It’s not just, “Okay, what can I, you know, how do I fit in?” That’s a question that we’re really used to asking, but let’s shift and ask ourselves, “What can I add?” “What do I bring to the table that’s not already sitting here?” Right?

For me stepping back, I realized I don’t see a space that combines mindfulness and productivity. And I’m feeling like I really need that right now. So, I’ve taken time with myself, and now I’m in a space where I’m just going to make it! [cheering] And it’s frightening, and we need courage, but with mindfulness, with being with yourself, and like that quote, finding and tapping into those inner resources, you are so capable of doing that. And you deserve to. And the world is ready to receive what you have. You just got to get deep in there, find what’s in there, and then find your way of sharing it.

(37:05)

Olivia: Yeah, it gets to be effortless; it gets to have ease to it. But that comes from the mindfulness of tuning in, like what you’re saying, you’ve got to find it within yourself versus just add to the noise.

(37:18) Year of ease

Melissa: I love that you just used the word “ease,” because I have claimed 2019 as my year of ease [cheering]. After a lot of shifts in 2018 and a lot of shifts within myself, ease is foreign to me, or it was before this year. And the beautiful and ironic, perhaps, thing about claiming 2019 as my year of ease is that things have flowed. Things have really come forward, and I’ve recognized what actually makes a good opportunity because I know what I’m ready to receive, and I know what aligns with not only, not what I think I should do, but what I desperately want and what I desperately need. Because I know it’s connected to me, as a person.

(38:08)

Olivia: Beautiful.

Shannon: I feel like I could cry.

Olivia: Yeah, I just want to be in your presence all day. I hope you know that we feel at ease in your presence. I feel that from you on, like, a soul level.

Shannon: And also, because of the conversations that Olivia and I have been having, we went to Tulum, Mexico recently, and had this beautiful, I think, awakening. And as you’re sitting here talking, you know, we can go online and research the people that are going to be on our podcast all day long. You don’t really know how your energy’s gonna jive (or not), and what it’s going to feel like, and what you’re going to talk about, and the flow of the conversation. I mean, I literally just went on and saw “clarity, mindfulness, and productivity,” and I’m like, “Okay, let’s hear what this is all about.” Right? That’s just kind of what you do when you’re doing an interview exchange.

But as you’re speaking, I’m sitting here and thinking to myself that this was destined. We were supposed to have this conversation. That the universe brought this to us because we already have been metriculating comments between the two of us and sharing that we want this to be easy; we don’t want to feel burnt out in the next 3 months. We want to continue to establish, like everybody says, building trust with our audience but from a place of longevity and sustainability and that allows them to look at themselves and say, “I” more than they’re saying “you.” And, in exchange, allow to share the “you” with people because they said the “I” first. And I think that’s what you’re saying here too. You have to start with “I.” You have to figure out who you are and what you want—even if that means you have to take 6 months off to figure it out, you get to call the shots. There are no rules, but if you’re going to run a business and you’re going to live a life, then why not do it with ease?

(40:06) The confessional

Olivia: Perfect timing. As always, this was the perfect timing for this conversation. I feel like what I want to do is just sit in this energy for the rest of…life…but what we have to do, what we need to do only because we do have time constraints, unfortunately, is we want to take you into the confessional.

Shannon: Dun dun dun. No, it’s a great free-flowing space, and hopefully it allows you to continue to build upon your ease. And it’s completely, 100 percent, unfiltered and designed for you. It’s for you to put out something that maybe people wouldn’t know about you or wouldn’t guess about you or something maybe that’s on your brain, on your heart, or that you feel called to share. Or anything at all that you want to put into this space, that’s what the confessional is for. It’s all about you.

(41:00) The “messy middle”

Melissa: [Pause] Wow. Well, I think something that I really want to make known is that what I’ve been doing, taking those 6 months off of work and shifting from or shifting into a space where I’m combining mindfulness and productivity, has been really, desperately challenging. And bizarre. Right, like, challenging in the sense that it’s been uncomfortable. And I think something that pushes people into the space of “should” is that they don’t get to see the discomfort. And so that’s just something that I want to make very transparent, and if people go to my website, if you go to melissasteginus.com/about, there is a whole space from 2011 to 2019 that breaks down each year, what’s happened, the shifts that I’ve made, and the stuff that I’ve been really wrestling with. And we might not have space for that within this short confessional [laughter], but I would really encourage you to check that out and to see that this is messy. You know, life is messy. That’s okay.

And a big part of my recent website redesign was that I want to be open about that. I want to be vulnerable. That’s something that has been quite foreign to me as a person who’s always in the shoes of the helper. And so that, again, very intentional, like mindful move. It’s good to see the messy middle. And so maybe I’m using this confessional as a bit of a way to inspire people to showcase that a little bit more. Because by doing that, for me, people have approached me and said, “Hey, I really needed to read this,” and, “I didn’t realize that was going on for you. Let me know how I can help.” Or it’s brought on clients, because they’re like, “Oh, you’re accessible. You’re human. I appreciate that. I want to learn from you, and I want to talk about this with you because this matters, and I feel like the other people I talk to maybe are a bit farther away.”

Right, so, it’s really frightening. And it doesn’t feel like ease. It really doesn’t. But I think in the long run, working through that creates ease because it builds a community of people around you who just love you. Not despite the mess but because of it. Because that’s what it is to be human.

(43:43)

Olivia: Yes. Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that and being willing to blaze the path of vulnerability in sharing the messy middle. Because, yeah, that’s it, that’s the key. It’s your key to relateability and connection, and it’s not something that should be hidden or shamed for any judgment of ourselves because of it. It’s just part of the fucking process.

Thank you so much for sharing with us, Melissa. I feel like we could talk to you, again, all day. Thank you for everything from the confessional to all of the little nuggets in between. Now that our audience wants to connect with you, where do they go from here to connect with all things Melissa and mindfulness? Oh! Two M’s, mindful Melissa.

(44:34)

Melissa: You can reach me, all things Melissa Steginus, at MelissaSteginus.com. There’s links to my social media there. I’m probably most active on my Facebook page and on Instagram (@melissasteginus). Please reach out to me. I love to hear where people are at and hear about what’s going on. Mindfulness, productivity, or really anything. The space is open. I hope that’s the energy that I’m giving out and the message that’s here. Let’s just create an open space for one another—wherever we’re at.